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 Suggestions for conversions:

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DocHolliday
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Number of posts : 220
Age : 37
Location : Seattle,WA
Registration date : 2007-08-30

PostSubject: Suggestions for conversions:   Tue Sep 02, 2008 9:20 am

Morning folks!

Alright, so my ears aren't as long as they used to be, but I've still heard a variety of concerns from a variety of people, so I figured I'd toss up a few suggestions to help ease conversion and would like to again offer myself up if someone wants to chat about how they can transfer their characters.

1) The first thing I want to say is that I have faith in Darrin guiding a conversion here without any trouble. We all agreed to 'save' the game before we did this, so lets all try to relax, take a breath, and have some fun with the conversion. I know its daunting to learn a new system, but it has a lot of perks.

2) Lets not be afraid to make a few mistakes. I know that everyone would like to have a system clean and precise before it hits the ground, but we don't really have that luxury. Since all of us are relative green-horns in this system, lets not talk a system change to death. None of us really have the expertise that makes it reasonable to look at a system and say 'wow, is that broken'. I suggest that we try most of the ideas we come up with at least once. Darrin has an idea for chops instead of pulling? Lets do a mock combat! Joe has an idea to streamline combat? Well, lets do it! We have some freedom here, lets play with it before we tie ourselves down to stability.

3) I have a suggestion for the Tremere conversion. It starts with a story:
Once upon a time.... Actually, lets just hit the gritty. The early days of the Tremere were filled with nasty, vile diablory. They were oppertunistic and blood thirsty to make the Assamites look timid. And since their vampiric identity didn't really bloom until they sucked down Salout, I suggest that the Tremere as a whole start manifesting weak blood. Their clan identity starts to slip away... their blood starts to twist in them. Where once you had a wizen researcher, you now have someone manifesting the traits of the gangrel. A noble Tremere warrior starts showing the signs of the Ventrue. The Tremere clan as a whole starts to come updone and lo! Just when disaster seems on the horizon, they reunite! What made them strong wasn't the blood, it was the structure. It was the order. It was the unity. What made them strong was their respect for their elders. What made them strong was their adherence to tradition. What made them strong was slavishly blood-binding their children. Instead of letting their entire Order fade into the night, and their secrets start to spread across the world, they reform the Council and make a 'Plan For Survival'(tm).
Personally, I think that the Crone most resemble their magic, but the Ordo Dracul most closely resembles their 'feel'. I suggest, then, that the Tremere as a whole become the Ordo Dracul, and the few that see this as their chance to slip the Tremere noose or whatever go running to the Crone. Easy! Making a 'Tremere' bloodline could work as well, but I'd strongly advise against it as you'd ultimately be weakening them all by forcing them to have the same Clan now.

4) I know I've heard some concerns about how XP will transfer. Darrin has a truly bitchin' idea to start a mini MemberClass sort of system, and I'm all in favor of it. Starting with a stronger 'starting character' in an effort to reward long-term players I think has a great deal of merits. It offers a few tasty rewards so that you aren't bringing in a total n00b if you die. And, <gasp> it offers a means for punishment aside from banishment. Player X has been with the game for 9 months. He's tier 3. He says he has Auspex 4 and plays a whole scene using his bitchin' Telepathy. Later, STs come to find he had no means of getting past Auspex 2. Strip him a few tiers. Getting knocked back to tier one without possibility of advancement for 6months will get the point across without pissing off anyone to the point where they bail. And, we, the player base, won't suffer for it. Just a thought. As long as the PLAYER keeps the tier regardless of character, I think it's a great idea.

5) XP Transfer. This is a bear and a half. I think that Dustin has the right idea. For the most part, transfering character sheets just won't work (for some of you it will, the Brujah and Daeva are exceptionally close, for example). But those who have a lot of disciplines that don't exist anymore, or spent a lot on Backgrounds that got all messed up, well, just filling in a new sheet with their old stuff isn't going to work. My follow-up for that is to say that the new system values XP much differently. With the differences in character gen, and the dramatically more expensive XP system (everything being cost= lvl purchasing * price is incredibly expensive).... well, lets just say that it takes way more buck to get the same bang. This has some pluses and some minuses. For one, having out of clan disciplines now is a big f-ing deal. What I suggest so that players don't feel cheated is just attach a multiple to whatever XP a person has. I know there is a suggestion that players get a blanket XP based on what they have earned since they entered game. While this seems to punish the few characters that started the game (I think we're down to two), I don't particularly care what the other characters are getting and I think most other players aren't too concerned about what the guy next to them is getting either. So... I don't really care WHAT system we use, lets just decide on something fair. Taking all the XP we've earned and going 'You earned 80 XP in the last Chronicle. You have 240 XP to remake your character with' sounds fair.

5) There's a truly bitchin idea on the table to mitigate the generation die system that we started the game with. We all knew when we started the game that randomized generation would create a very clear power difference. We all knew and we all agreed to play under those terms. The new system doesn't have a comperable system. Generation 8 is about BP 5. There is no way that a starting character will have that much XP to dump into BP. My suggestion on it is we go with what Darrin suggested: If you rolled 10th Generation, you start with X xp to sink into BP. Or, start with straight out dots. If you rolled 13- 11, you get an extra dot of BP at creation. If you rolled 11-10, you get two. If you rolled 9-8, you get three.
Done. For those of you out there that are rubbing your hands and going 'Yay! Now I can start with BP 8 and PWN the world', I strongly advise you read the actual BP system. Sure, it will give you a very real, tangible advantage. It will also fuck up your world. A lot. (And if you think I'm going to stand between you and the hungry looking gangrel in the corner, you got another thing coming)

6) I have a final suggestion that hasn't been discussed yet. I suggest that we give everyone something reasonable, say 3-4 game sessions after the transfer where they can still change shit without getting IC called foul. So, that's to say that Josh makes Jeremy Stokes again. In the old system he was a Gangrel Anarch. He remakes him as a Gangrel Carthian in the new system. But he plays with it a bit and the Carthians just don't have the same 'pop' of the Anarchs. Sure, they look the same on paper, but they're not all they're cracked up to be. He decides to give the Invictus a try. I say that we don't punish anyone IC (or prohibit OOC) for changing their sheet in the first month of two of the switch. Doc won't take a dump on Stokes for changing, he won't get IC teased. We all agree to just gloss it over a bit. Or a more drastic example is Millstone starting as a Daeva, but she gets really sick of this 'all physical' thing, and decides after playing her for a week or two to try the Ventrue. Lets just be gentle for that first month or two of change till we all find our feet, ya?

7) Lets just have some fun with this! How often do we have a chance to say 'F-It! Lets all have 300 XP and make a new game!' ? We can literally do whatever we want, and as long as we start on a roughly similar term, we're totally golden.

In short: Lets give everyone a chance to try the new system. We all agreed to save. If we re-make the game and it really doesn't work, we can go back to what it was. I guess what I'm saying is, lets give this a shot. I really want to keep RPing with this group, and I don't want anyone leaving because they feel unheard, or daunted by the new system.

Ping me in PM if you have concerns, I really want to hash em out.
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Darrin
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Location : Bellevue
Registration date : 2007-08-31

PostSubject: Re: Suggestions for conversions:   Wed Sep 03, 2008 8:40 am

Thanks Rob. If anyone has any questions I would rather se them on the board so that everyone will have the chance to see what poeple are thinking.

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